How to ask for what you want

As Catherine Brenner spoke the room fell silent.

“Women are just as likely to ask for a pay rise as men but are less likely to get it.”

The scratching of cutlery on porcelain plates that moments earlier echoed loudly around the room at the Four Seasons, Sydney, gently faded.

“Men are much more likely to receive a promotion without asking for it than women – more than 30 per cent more likely,” Brenner, the chair of Australian Payments Plus (BPAY, Eftpos, NPP, Beem), continued.

“So, how can we change this?”

Catherine Brenner dispelled the myth that women are less likely to ask for a payrise

Brenner was one of three high-profile Australian women tasked to share their experiences of how they asked and achieved what they wanted in their career.

“It’s not just about pay and promotion, it’s about so many other things as well. It’s about how, when and where we work,” she told the Future Women Leadership Summit 2022.

Personally, she says follows the principles of – prepared, ask specifically and clearly, practice, following up and play the long game.

“So, prepare. I confess, I usually find it easier to do this sort of preparation as though it’s for someone else,” she said.

“I’ve even been known for to use a fake name when I’m doing that work.”

She said always remember not to talk yourself out of things as part of the process and do not give a list of reasons “why you do not deserve, why you may not be ready for, why the business may not be able to give yourself what you want.”

“When I was a young lawyer, I saw that my charge-out had increased quite significantly. I asked my main partner and he said it reflected the quality of my work. I sat back assuming that it would eventually make its way into a pay increase,” she said.

“But it didn’t.”

It was only when she was contacted by a headhunter, who revealed salaries for comparable roles was higher, that Brenner approached her boss armed with supporting documentation.

After a constructive discussion with her boss, Brenner met with upper management – with her boss’s support – and a pay increase was reached.

She said it’s also important to lay the groundwork for future discussions.

“In my early days as a leader, I was surprised by how often the men would give me little updates and make comments in the lift or as they walked by,” she said.

“It gave me pause to realise that women, like I so often did, were beavering away, heads down, and would come to me with a beautifully polished finished product, effectively tied up with a bow.”

Publishing giant Louise Adler addressed Future Women’s Leadership Summit 2022

As Louise Adler took the stage, a snippet of the anthemic bubblegum pop of BTS’s ‘Dynamite’ blared. Adler took note and joked. It would not be her last.

“That music is a bit scary for my generation,” the 68-year-old former publisher-at-large at Hachette Australia quipped. The audience was hooked.

“I will take you back to the dark ages, if you don’t mind, for a minute.”

Adler, a giant of the Australian publishing industry, then regaled, and horrified, the audience with a Commonwealth Paper written on the question of women trade commissioners back in the 1960s.

In short, the paper contained such lines as “a relatively young, attractive woman could operate with some effectiveness in a subordinate capacity as she would probably be the only woman Assistant Trade Commissioner in the whole area”.

And “such an appointing would not stay young and attractive forever and later on could well become a problem”.

“As a second-wave feminist, I thought we were going to improve the status of women,” Adler said.

“It’s true, at the most general level, we did. There are now institutionalised processes for women to complain about sexual discrimination. Young women today believe they have rights, and they assume a sense of equality.

She said it was inspiring that misogyny and sexual abuse are being made public. She made special note of survivors Grace Tame, Brittany Higgins and Saxon Mullins “to name but a few”.

“But I also despair that whether it’s in the corridors of Parliament House, the C-suites, church groups, schools or football clubs, sexism is still alive and well. It’s brushed under the carpet and goes unchanged all too often,” she said.

When it comes to asking for what you want, Adler echoed Brenner’s points on being prepared.

“Do your homework, know what you’re talking about. Arm yourself when you’re applying for a job or you’re asking for a pay rise. You have to know the environment and have done the work before you get there,” she said.

In closing, Adler dropped the line of the conference. It left the audience in fits of laughter and lost for words. Sam Mostyn was among them.

Sam Mostyn offered her advice on how to ask for what you want at the Four Seasons in Sydney

“Note to self, don’t following Louise Adler when she drops the best line,” the President of Chief Executive Women said as she took the stage.

Like Adler, Mostyn reminded the audience of the past, this time in words of Australian businesswoman, Wendy McCarthy.

“I thought I’d start with a reminder about where we all start and that we don’t start out confident and able to get what we want, that we’re all part of a big backstory,” Mostyn said.

She then spoke about her own career path.

“For me, (finding my voice) wasn’t easy. As you’ve heard from our other speakers, we’ve all had our journey from when we were young women and the things we’ve encountered,” she said.

Mostyn shared a story about scoring a role as the Australian Football League’s first woman commissioner. She admitted she wore towering high heels to the interview so she could look her male recruiters in the eyes. She got the job.

From left to right: Sam Mostyn, Louise Adler, Catherine Brenner and Lizzie Young on stage at Future Women’s Leadership Summit 2022

In terms of advice, Mostyn also agreed preparation was key.

“Both Catherine and Louise have mentioned the things I was going to speak about, about practicing, about finding other women that you can ring and say ‘I’ve got a job interview, I’ve got a difficult board matter, can I run through it with you, can we play act?” she said.

“I do that a lot. You’d be surprised by how many very senior women in this country will speak to one another and say ‘I’m great when I’m in the board, but if I’m doing an interview and being asked to speak about myself I go to pieces, how can I do it?”

PHOTOGRAPHER: MARK BROOME